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Restrepia lansbergii

Discussion in 'Orchid Species' started by pcolman, Jan 14, 2018.

  1. pcolman

    pcolman Well-Known Member Supporting Member

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    I'm growing this plant right next the Restrepia cuprea I posted the other day, same exact culture. But it doesn't suffer from warped leaves or the leaf tip burn that R. cuprea does. On the other hand R. cuprea blooms a lot more often. This one blooms a few times a year, mainly in flushes during the colder months.

    The entire plant is about 5" wide. The lip of each flower is about ¾" long.

    Restrepia lansbergii.jpg Restrepia lansbergii (closeup).jpg
     
  2. Kipper

    Kipper CoffeeCoffeeCoffee... Supporting Member

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    Love it.
     
  3. Marni

    Marni Well-Known Member Staff Member Supporting Member

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    You must be growing this one in very bright light. I've never seen such red leaves on this species. You might want to check the roots of the cuprea and the conditions of the medium.
     
    Last edited: Mar 30, 2019
  4. pcolman

    pcolman Well-Known Member Supporting Member

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    I'd say medium light. It's sitting in the shade provided by a Rhyncholaelia glauca. It gets light that varies from 500-1000fc across the plant since it's dappled light. The R. cuprea's roots are good. It was remounted less than a year ago. It's always behaved that way, not matter what light setup I've had (MH, then T5HO, now LED) or age of the mount/medium.
     
  5. Dave The Scientist

    Dave The Scientist Active Member

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    I find for some things, the constant full intensity of under lights growing seems to push the creation of photoprotective pigments more than growing under natural light. The difference may be the different lighting
     
  6. Raven

    Raven Active Member

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    I agree with Dave. I have D. agathodaemonis and cyanocentrum that refused to grow under normal light levels for these species (1000-1500 fc). The pigmentation was intense and the plants were stunted until I moved them. They are getting about 800 fc now and grow happy.
     
  7. pcolman

    pcolman Well-Known Member Supporting Member

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    The effect of a constant level of light (versus the variable levels of natural lighting) quickly becomes apparent to anyone who's grown under lights for a while. You should be able to grow plants in about half the recommended amount of light for growing under natural light.

    Another factor is the differing levels of PAR (Photosynthetically Active Radiation) given off by different types of light sources. I have a Doritis pulcherrima var laotica that was grown in close to full sun outdoors before I bought it. It had olive-colored, nearly beige foliage. Under my T5HO setup, it gradually reverted to green over the course of a few months. Since switching to an LED setup, it has reverted to that olive colored foliage, even though the level of light in footcandles that it receives is similar. The difference is that the LED setup puts out about twice the PAR as my T5HO setup.
     
    Last edited: Jan 16, 2018
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  8. Chuck-NH

    Chuck-NH Well-Known Member

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    Hi pcolman,

    To keep this discussion going. There is also the possibility of genetic variation causing this. In some horticultural circles, there is significant breeding and selection specifically for purple/red foliage. Generally light is still a factor, as plants in more shade will exhibit less intense coloration, or turn back to green. In many plants, the production of the red/purple pigment (anthocyanin) is a stimulated by UV light and has also been linked to a combination with nutrient balance (low phosphorus often cited). I attached a picture below of a guttulata hanging rather high in a basket and it has very little pigmentation. Now I grow in a greenhouse with triple wall polycarbonate and I believe that cuts out a lot of the UV.
    image.jpeg
     
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  9. Mikhail kujawa

    Mikhail kujawa Well-Known Member

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    That is beautiful Chuck!
     
  10. Ray

    Ray Orchid Iconoclast Supporting Member

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    I think that where many growers make a mistake is equating light level recommendation to artificial sources. A traditional "AOS Culture Sheet" recommendation of "1500 foot-candles", for example, is meant as the peak light level the plant will see during the day, and NOT how much it should get for 12-14 hours.

    Picking up on the PAR comment, and greatly simplifying it, if you consider dawn to noon to dusk to represent a triangle in light intensity, then the "PAR" is the area of that triangle, calculated as 1/2 base (hours) x height (peak foot-candles), meaning that under artificial light, the plant should get approximately 750 foot-candles for that same time period.

    Concerning feeding - specifically phosphorus level - and anthocyanin production, I've been looking into plant nutrition a great deal, and while that is well-established in plants in general, especially food crops, the nutritional demands of most orchids are simply SO small, that the likelihood of such things happening are almost nil.

    A funny little nutritional statistic that does apply pretty broadly is that in order to put on one pound of mass, and plant only needs approximately 5 grams of mineral nutrition. For a restrepia in a 5" basket, a pound is probably decades of growth, so it makes sense that the nutrient demand is very low. For a corn plant, on the other hand, between the vegetative growth and the fruit, it might grow several pounds in a 90-day season.

    I've been feeding my plants a 12-1-1 formula at 25 ppm N rate for 5-6 years now. At that rate, the P concentration is only 0.036 ppm, yet I have seen no such sign of deficiency, and my plants are doing better than ever.
     
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  11. Chuck-NH

    Chuck-NH Well-Known Member

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    Hi Ray, with regards to nutrients, was only trying to point out that chemical balance can be a variable, particularly if every other variable is accounted for. I agree with you regarding orchids vs. other plants, but I have seen where some very slight changes changes in chemistry can result in pigment changes in a few individuals out of a population (without any apparent nutrient deficiency)...perhaps this could be a consideration in orchids too?

    Here is a photo of a Restrepia trichoglossa, the lower leaves were shaded and the upper leaves have some direct sun exposure...quite a contrast in pigmentation.
    image.jpeg
     
  12. pcolman

    pcolman Well-Known Member Supporting Member

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    I used to grow R. trichoglossa. I got a bit less light than cuprea and lansbergii, but not that much. And never a hint of reddened leaves. They mystery continues.
     
  13. Chuck-NH

    Chuck-NH Well-Known Member

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    Yes...and I noticed two Restrepia guttulata plants within a foot of each other today. One was green with just a hint of red pigment and normal leaves and the other was red and had some warping of the leaves?
     
  14. Ray

    Ray Orchid Iconoclast Supporting Member

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    Hah! I'm not sure I even want to get into such a discussion!

    Plant nutrition is a highly complex subject, and there are a lot of cases in which an excess or deficiency in one mineral can cause a deficiency in another, or at least look like there is.

    My "gut" tells me that there is likely an ideal nutrient package for each individual, but without a great deal of testing - as has been done with major food crops - it s next to impossible to know, and there's also the fact that other cultural parameters can interact with it, further confounding the quest.
     
  15. naoki

    naoki Well-Known Member

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    I agree with Ray that orchid mineral nutrition isn't as well studied as other plants, and it isn't completely suitable to apply the knowledge of crop plants to epiphytes. There are a few studies in Phalaenopsis, though.

    This paper is in Japanese with English abstract:
    Yoneda, Kazuo & Usui, Mariko & Kubota, Satoshi. (1997). Effect of Nutrient Deficiency on Growth and Flowering of Phalaenopsis. Engei Gakkai Zasshi. 66. 141-147. 10.2503/jjshs.66.141.
    (abstract in English)

    Basically, it is the basic deficiency test, where you mix fertilizer with one element lacking. I have done a similar thing with corn (for a botany class I teach). There is a couple interesting things.

    "Phosphorus deficiency induced purple and red coloration of the older leaves, leaf distortion and curling of the leaf apices. Yellowing of an individual leaf began from its apex and gradually spreaded basipetally to the entire leaf, ending in defoliation. The deficiency symptoms spread upward from the basal leaves of a plant."

    So red coloration of P deficiency does apply, but I wouldn't think that this is causing the red color in pcolman's.

    N deficiency has an impact on shoot (not root) growth.
    K, Ca, Mg deficiency doesn't influence much (at least in a short term), which demonstrates that epiphytic orchids are really good at recycling the nutrients, and they are buffered from the occasional lack of availability.

    Their study used sphagnum moss (instead of inorganic media, which is frequently used for this types of study). So some nutrients are uptaken from the sphag.

    I also think that it is related to the light as Chuck said. You'll see more pigmentation with top leaves. But it looks healthy, and kind of pretty. Sun tan in human isn't a bad thing (unless you cause the DNA damage).

    The expression of anthocyanin is influenced by many environmental factors. One of them is intensity of UV as Chuck suggested. In Phalaenopsis, blue light also has the influence, too. LEDs don't emit UV at all (well UV-LED is still expensive), but higher K LEDs contain fair amount of blue. So instead of PAR (of day light integral, DLI), which doesn't discriminate the color of light, amount of light in certain color can influence the color of plants. On the other hand, these pigments could make the plants more prepared against pathogen infection.
     
  16. Ray

    Ray Orchid Iconoclast Supporting Member

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    Nice addition to the discussion, Naoki.

    I am quite sure that in my own case, using inert media in most cases these days, my low-but-frequent doses of K-Lite, which probably provides plenty of K & P, is likely supplemented by the wide array of stuff in KelpMax, and probably "preprocessed" to a degree by the critters in the Inocucor product.
     
  17. Chuck-NH

    Chuck-NH Well-Known Member

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    Hi Ray, I probably should start a new thread, but you mentioned K-Lite. I was finding I had real good growth and blooms on Masdevallias for a couple of years and then decline. I tried many things and then started hearing about potassium toxicity...cut back on that, added a little CalMag and things improved rapidly. I now supplement with KelpMax after repotting as well as with Inocucor...I think those really help with keeping the health up, particularly during seasonal changes where the plants can be stressed by being too cold, too warm or too wet.
     
  18. Natureman

    Natureman Active Member

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    Great plant, but doesn’t look like lansbergii to me.
     
  19. GaryYG

    GaryYG Active Member

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    If you don't think that Pcolman's plant is Rstp. lansbergii. What do you think it is?

    I think that it agrees with Carlyle Luer's concept of Rstp. lansbergii. Luer's comments mention small plant with small white, purple-spotted flowers; leaves often suffused purple; elliptical or obovate synsepal less than 18 mm long; synsepal narrowed toward the base with sides more less erect; minutely verrucose oblong lip with serrate margin.

    Reference: Luer, C.A. (1996) Icones Pleurothallidinarum XIII - Systematics of Restrepia. Missouri Botanical Garden, Missouri.