Neofinetia falcata - should I worry about this?

orchidkarma · Apr 13, 2010

What is this? Many of the leaves on my Neofinetia falcata has this... otherwise in great health. Due to a bit much light or something to worry about? Thanks!

Marni · Apr 13, 2010

I don't know what to say. I don't think it is too much light. Is it on new leaves, old leaves, all over the plant, on the back of the leaf and/or front, diffferent on the back than the front? The leaf in the foreground looks really scary! The leaf on the right, where it looks like there are sunken spots/pits on the back of the leaf would make me think about mites of some sort.

I've heard there is a mite that affects odontoglossums as the growth emerges that causes the streaky black in the leaves as they mature that mimic virus symptoms, but I've not heard of it on other genera.

orchidkarma · Apr 15, 2010

Thank you very much for your reply Marni. I agree with you, it looks REALLY scary... even more so when you look at the photos as the flash really brings out the problem even more. Trouble is that I have been over this plant with a magnifying loop many times and I cannot find a single little critter on it. I know false spider mites are really hard to see, but there are not many places to hide here - and I have not seen as much as one! With the damage as extensive as this one would think it would be fairly easy to spot the problem..? Or how should I look? Break off a few leaves and look in between?

I took more photos last night, and it is clear that both new growth and old alike is affected, but mainly on the underside of the leaves. It is also clear that I should worry about this... but what is it and what do I do about it? ....thoughts anyone?

orchidkarma · Apr 15, 2010

Guignardiainfection???

Been looking around the net trying to solve this... sounds like it might be Guignardiainfection perhaps? It looks a lot like the photo in this document (on page 32 in the PDF), but other photos I have seen online does not match... I have no experience with this fungus - anyone else do?

Symptoms:The first signs of Guignardiainfection are tiny, dark purple, elongate lesions on either leaf surface. These lesions run parallel to the veins and elongate into purple streaks or diamond-shaped areas. spots often merge to form large irregular lesions that may affect a large part of the leaf. With age, the center of the lesion turns tan. Raised, black sporing bodies develop in the affected area. Affects mostly Ascocentrumand Vandasand their hybrids.
Click to expand...

Treatment: Remove infected leaves with a sterile instrument and reduce leaf wetness. Spray with a systemic fungicide such as thiophanate methyl (Cleary's 3336) or a protectant fungicide like Mancozeb, following label instructions. Alternate systemic and protectant fungicides.
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If treatment begins with removing infected leaves, this plant should be discarded since all leaves are more or less affected, but before I do I would like to know that this is really the diagnosis... or what would you guys do?

Since this is highly infectious, should the surrounding plants not show symptoms by now too? None do as far as I can see, but I need to put my other Neos under the magnifier tonight if it is primarily vandaceous plants that are susceptible... I just recently got several more Neos... damn.

What should I do to the rest of the plants (preventative measures) as this plants was housed in the warm viv. = a small enclosed area... I have not seen any systemic fungicides in the stores... any of you Swedes here that have found anything good?

mini-catts · Apr 15, 2010

I'm so glad you posted new pictures of your plant as the first one sort of distorted the coloration of the leaves. I really don't think you have anything to worry about!

The leaves of neo's can have this purple pigmentation. In fact there are some varieties that have heavy spotting like this.

I grow and collect many of these, plus have several books on Neofinetia. There are pictures in these books of highly pigmented leaves.
I also think that high light may bring out this pigmentation.

I hope that helps!
Pete

orchidkarma · Apr 15, 2010

Pete!! You are my new best friend!!!!

This is why I was originally wondering if it could be light causing this. I know red pigments could be a response to light, but this also looked a bit severe/bizarre so I was a bit concerned just like you Marni. Glad I asked... I moved this plant a bit closer to the light recently and come to think of it, this is when it became more pronounced... guess I should have mentioned this earlier sorry... scatter brained...

Do you think it is getting too much light now or should I leave it where it is? I have a Neo 'Shutenno' and a 'Yodonomatsu' that immediately set flower spikes when moved to the brighter location... a bit of an incentive if you know what I mean...

Marni · Apr 15, 2010

I would go with Pete's advice. What looked like sunken spots on the first photo (mite damage) looks like pigmentation of the new images.

One thing an entomologist told me about false spider mite, is that by the time you see serious damage on a leaf they have moved on to greener pastures.

orchidkarma · Apr 15, 2010

Thanks Marni!

One thing an entomologist told me about false spider mite, is that by the time you see serious damage on a leaf they have moved on to greener pastures.
Click to expand...

Scary thought.... I only wish there was a predatory mite that was effective on the false spider mite since they are so hard to detect until it is too late as it were.

This_guy_Bri · Apr 15, 2010

orchidkarma said: ↑

Thanks Marni!

Scary thought.... I only wish there was a predatory mite that was effective on the false spider mite since they are so hard to detect until it is too late as it were.
Click to expand...

there is!
i've used them for broad mites too!
http://greenmethods.com/site/biocontrols/mixed-mites/

and

http://greenmethods.com/site/biocontrols/fallacis/

Marni · Apr 15, 2010

Thanks for the links. Very interesting.

Aceetobe · Apr 15, 2010

i've never had any luck with predatory mites.

orchidkarma · Apr 16, 2010

Yes, thanks a lot for the links. I prefer using this kind of pest control over poisons when possible (especially since I grow indoors).

Aceetobe: I have only tried predatory mites for control of fungus gnats and it was quite effective. I used Entonem/Steinernema feltiae.

Kitty · Apr 16, 2010

Pinguicula's

for fungus gnats I use a carniverous plant called Pinguicula, they are very pretty little plants with slimey leafs that the gnats stick to. the first one I put in my grnhs. turned black with gnats over night, I rinsed them off, it happened again for the next 3 nights till I had rinsed all the slime off, it took a week for the slime to regenerate. they propagate easily,have cute flowers and I have them scattered through the grnhs. They come with different leaf shapes and flower color, Really helps keep the gnats under control, love um

Uluwehi · May 21, 2010

I agree with Peter. For example, most of the Neofinetia plants that Seed Engei had for sale at the POE show this year had lots of speckled pigmentation.

I believe colder temperatures amplifies this colouration. I have been growing a few dozen different cultivars at low- and mid-elevations in Hawai'i for many years and they look much greener there. They loose most of the spotting in the warmth. This contrasts with those that I have seen grown outdoors without heating in Mediterranean climates such as that of coastal California.

My partner strapped one to his Maytenus boaria tree here in Berkeley, CA 2 years ago. It went from being very deep green lacking spots when I sent it to him, to being a lime green with MANY spots.

I have seen a different pattern of purple pigmentation than yours show up when certain cultivars are grown in very high light. Usually it is concentrated on the margins of the leaves, not freely speckled as with yours. It could also be a combination of high light and cooler temps. I never have had your pattern of free speckling on mine when grown in high light in the tropics.

orchidkarma · May 21, 2010

Thanks for the info Morabeza. Interesting to hear about your experiences with similar (and different) pigmentation in your Neos. I am growing mine very bright, but not cool (26-28 C), so I think it must be light related. The flowers on this one just opened, I need to post a picture.

Thanks Kitty, I like Pinguiculas. Have had them in the past. I think I will look for some carnivorous plants, I need to find some that handle cooler temps though as I need them for the cool vivarium (nights at 10-12 C).

Uluwehi · May 21, 2010

Congratulations on the blooms! Of course the spotting could be due to factors that I haven't thought of.

orchidkarma · May 21, 2010

Thanks, I will try and take a good photo this weekend. I saw your Neofinetia falcata collection on Flickr, wow, bummer to loose so many. I hope you get to replace most of them soon.

Uluwehi · May 21, 2010

Thanks Orchidkarma. I am happy to say that the greenhouse meltdown of 2007 is behind me. Though I certainly wish I still had some of the Neos I lost to it, I remain optimistic that one day I'll be able to afford to replace them. I am grateful that three years later I have a few dozen healthy cultivars that made it through, some of which look as if they've never seen a day of hardship

Perhaps it may be of interest that forms from the southern part of the species' range, e.g. Amami Island, tolerated the extreme heat MUCH better than others.

No one should have to experience such heartache from greenhouse accidents, but I take comfort in knowing that I am not alone - many of us have killed beautiful things despite how much we have tried to anticipate our plants' every need.

I am proud of myself for not letting experiences such as this (and when I found out that I had paid thousands of dollars that I has scraped and saved for Phalaenopsis species that were infected with CymMV ORSV) kill off my desire to continue growing orchids, though I must admit these did set me back for some time.

I've got an Amami Island White coming into bloom with 12 spikes right now, yea!!! I hope to get pictures this weekend and post them.

orchidkarma · May 21, 2010

Sounds like your passion for is strong despite the hardships. Good to know that you can bounce back after such a disaster - I hope I will never have to experience anything like it. Nice to get some first hand info on growing Neos since mr. google does not know too much about this species... I am looking forward to seeing photos of your Amami Island, 12 spikes!!! Holy cow! I have the pink color form, it is almost to flowering size and I can barely wait.

PS! From California to Hawaii, nice... I made quite the opposite move, from California (San Diego) to Sweden... good for my passion for cool growers at least.

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