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HELP! BUGS, FUNGUS, OR BACTERIA OH MY!

Discussion in 'Issues, Disease and Pests' started by Jgrimm1055, May 27, 2017.

  1. Jgrimm1055

    Jgrimm1055 Jonathan loves Masdevallias!

    Hello orchid friends,
    I'm having some kind of issue going in in my orchidarium. I believe that it might be fungus, bacteria or insects. I'm leaning towards mites of somekind. I will post a couple pictures of the leaves on some of my plants. Whatever it is, it seems to be going after my Pleurothallids more then my other orchids. Spotting and pitting on top and underside of leaves. I possibly might be under fertilizing too. I use MSU 1/4 strength. I try to fertilize at every watering then every once in a while use straight RO but I have had a lot going on the last few months. I did some searching on the forum and I see people have uses the Bayer products. I when to Home Depot and I found two different Bayer products and I'm not sure which one to use. There a Bayer all in one that says it's a systemic but also a fertilizer and then there's a Bayer 3 in 1 but I don't see systemic on the bottle. I'm gonna post pics of them and of anyone knows which I should use that would be great. Also should I water the plants before I spray and do I spray down in the sphagnum of the potted plants? If I should spray really good and soak the sphagnum. I've lucked out for a really long time and never had a problem. So I don't really have experience with this issue. I'm also not sure if I should dilute the product more becasue I grow sensitive plants. For anyone that's been posting info about the Bayer products your help is very appreciated or anyone that can help! Thank you my orchid friends! 20170527_110210.jpg 20170527_110157.jpg 20170527_110147.jpg 20170524_145850.jpg 20170524_144751.jpg
     
  2. Marni

    Marni Well-Known Member Staff Member Supporting Member

    The Bayer formulations have imidacloprid which is a systemic. I've used the 3 in 1 for many things. If you want complete protection you have to spray down at the roots as well as the leaves as it only moves up in the plant. I would say there is a good chance that you have false spider mite which is not going to be killed by the Bayer formulations. If it is false spider mite, you will need something specifically for that. Avid is good as well as some of the newer formulations. Best to look for one that is trans-laminar (travels through the leaf) so you don't have to get a direct hit under the leaves. You will have to do follow up sprays at 7 to 10 days.

    You want the plants dry before you spray or else you will dilute the concentration.

    I've never had regular mites on masdevallias, only false spider mites. Once you see the damage, the mites have moved on to newer leaves.
     
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  3. Jgrimm1055

    Jgrimm1055 Jonathan loves Masdevallias!

    Marni you are the best! Always a fantastic help! Now to kill these jerk mites!
     
  4. Jgrimm1055

    Jgrimm1055 Jonathan loves Masdevallias!

    Just ordered the Avid. Wowee it's pricey... It's worth it to kill these stupid mites. It really sucks when something like this happens. You automatically think it's something you did like over watering, under fertilizing, etc. I felt like I was the most awful grower. At least I can blame it on the bugs!
     
  5. Marni

    Marni Well-Known Member Staff Member Supporting Member

    Yes, Avid is expensive. You may be able to sell some of it to some other orchid growers. It only takes a very small amount per gallon. From my not too great memory, it is 1/4 teaspoon per gallon.
     
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  6. Jgrimm1055

    Jgrimm1055 Jonathan loves Masdevallias!

    It also happened so fast! Plants were great a boom! catastrophe! I have a feeling we're it came from and it wasn't that long ago at all. My fault for not having a long enough quarantine.
     
  7. Jgrimm1055

    Jgrimm1055 Jonathan loves Masdevallias!

    I've been going threw my collection and seeing a lot of damage. I'm trying to find the mites but I don't see them. I see the damage and found webbing at the base of a couple plants. This is just awful! My poor Draculas and Masdevallias! I took a couple pics threw my jewelers loop and a regular pic of my Dracula lotax. I just changed the sphagnum on my lotax let then 2 months ago and it looked perfectly fine. It's harder to get to in the vivarium and I couldn't see the damage from above. These mites are no joke! 20170529_164724.jpg 20170529_164655.jpg 20170529_164616.jpg 20170529_164558.jpg 20170529_165652.jpg
     

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  8. Marni

    Marni Well-Known Member Staff Member Supporting Member

    Look for the mites on the unblemished growths. Looks as if you might have some "snow mold". In the past, I've used Physan for that. That is actually the only thing I use Physan for. Perhaps some one else has some ideas about it. A dip or thorough spray might be in order.

    Welcome to the club! There are an unbelievable number of things to go wrong in orchid growing. Just when you think you've seen it all, something new shows up to keep you humble. You learn from your experience and move on.
     
  9. Jgrimm1055

    Jgrimm1055 Jonathan loves Masdevallias!

    Thank you Marni! This weekend I'm pulling everything out! Treating and disinfecting everything! Same for the following weekend. I'm also gonna add another small fan. There's a corner I think isn't getting enough air movement. Then making sure I stay on top of quarantining my new plants. My friend recommended using Pharm products as a preventative. I think I will use them in my routine. This to shall pass lol!
     
  10. Chuck-NH

    Chuck-NH Active Member

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    Hi, had a spider mite outbreak on Draculas, Masdevallias and Oxyglossum Dendrobiums a couple years ago during the heat of the Summer. The black pitting as in your photo above was a telltale sign. I only lost one plant, although I didn't catch soon enough and things were set back for a while. I tried the Bayer 3-1 first, but with no success. Then read several articles that link Imidachloroprid with worsening mite infestation. Here is a recent one from Newsweek:

    Widely used pesticides are causing huge spider mite outbreaks

    I solved the problem with two applications of Pylon which is another expensive specific miticide
     
  11. Jgrimm1055

    Jgrimm1055 Jonathan loves Masdevallias!

    Thank you so much! You made me feel better! I feel a little overwhelmed at the moment. Both you and Marni are great helps! I got the Avid Marni recommended. It should be here Friday. It's gonna be a lot of work becasue I grow indoors in an orchidarium. So I'm gonna have to bring everything outside to spray. I read that you can't spray this stuff indoors. It's OK though anything I have to do to get rid of it. Plus I can disinfect the tanks while my orchids are drying outside. I have two orchidariums and I grow on a windowsill. The orchidarium that got infected has all my prized orchids in it. I will beat this and be a little wiser from it! =)
     
  12. Marni

    Marni Well-Known Member Staff Member Supporting Member

    Imidicloprid doesn't do anything to false spider mite. I've had them on pleurothallids and oxyglossum dendrobiums. I've never had regular mites on either of those.
     
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  13. Jgrimm1055

    Jgrimm1055 Jonathan loves Masdevallias!

    Hey Marni!
    Just wanted to say thank you so much! The Avid worked amazing! My plants are saved! Some of my plants have been set back becasue of damage from the mites. I'm just happy there gone! Now I can nurse my babies back to good health! Before I started to spray I had such a hard time trying to find the spidermites. I was taking plants out every day and looking over them with my eye loop. I couldn't find any of them! Finally I spotted one and your right! They are crazy fast! I guess every time I picked up a plant they ran. So far after spraying I found two dead ones. That took a lot of searching lol. I have one more spraying to do and I think that should do it.
    Thank you so much again,
    Jonathan
     
  14. Marni

    Marni Well-Known Member Staff Member Supporting Member

    That is good news! Don't forget the follow up spraying. When I was having repeated outbreaks of false spider mite, I was using a fertilizer that apparently was not complete. I continued to have outbreaks repeatedly for th 18 months I used it. I am on RO water so can't count on the water for anything. I switched to MSU and the frequent outbreaks stopped. That was probably in the late 90's or early 2000's. I've had a couple since then, but not a serious problem as long as I treat as soon as I see evidence.

    The nasty leaves will be around for quite some time reminding you of the little critters. As long as the funky leaves are able to photosynthesize I leave them on.
     
  15. Jgrimm1055

    Jgrimm1055 Jonathan loves Masdevallias!

    Thank you for the information! I use RO to and MSU from repotme.com. It's interesting you say that about the fertilizer and the connection to spidermites. I believe I was under fertilizing and that's when the issues started. I've gone back to using 1/4 strength at almost every watering.
    It was a big project! Since I grow indoors in two orchidariums I couldn't spray in the house. Many trips in and out of the house. I also did a major scrub down and disinfected everything. I feel a lot better now lol.
     
  16. Marni

    Marni Well-Known Member Staff Member Supporting Member

    Another friend who was using the same fertilizer I was had problems with aphids the whole time he used it. As soon as he stopped, the aphids became a non issue. The stronger the plant, the more resistant it will be.
     
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