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Habenaria rhodocheila

Discussion in 'Orchid Species' started by shashidhar sastry, Oct 11, 2018.

  1. shashidhar sastry

    shashidhar sastry Active Member

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    Habenaria rhodocheila3.jpg Habenaria rhodocheila8.jpg Habenaria rhodocheila18.jpg Habenaria rhodocheila15.jpg
     
    Kipper, Marni and Piranhacon like this.
  2. DarleneJay

    DarleneJay Well-Known Member

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    Lovely!
     
  3. RustyExotics

    RustyExotics - Nicholas

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    I think that actually may be Habenaria roebelenii, not rhodocheila.

    Regardless, that's a really spectacular bloom. Keep up the good work!!
     
  4. shashidhar sastry

    shashidhar sastry Active Member

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    will check, thank you
     
  5. shashidhar sastry

    shashidhar sastry Active Member

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    Kew says H. rhodocheila is synonym for H. roebbelenii is H. rhodocheila sub sp rhodocheila. Earlier it was mentioned that roebbelenii is carved out of rohodocheila as a new species.
     
  6. Marni

    Marni Well-Known Member Staff Member Supporting Member

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    After pollinating both them, I go with different species.
     
  7. shashidhar sastry

    shashidhar sastry Active Member

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    sorry, come again, shall i pollinate as I have two plants inn bloom ?
     
  8. Piranhacon

    Piranhacon Member

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    What I think Marni is saying is that she has had experience pollinating what is considered Habenaria rhodocheila and what is considered Habenaria roebelenii on separate occasions, and as a result she has reason to believe that they should be considered 2 separate species, and that they are not synonymous with each other.

    I think that it is much more obvious to me that Habenaria erichmichelii and Habenaria janellehayneiana are distinct species, but I am not entirely clear on whether there is an actual distinction between what is considered Habenaria rhodocheila and what is considered Habenaria roebelenii. Aside from color differences, I have not been able to find photos that clearly distinguishes one from the other in terms of floral morphology. I am also quite confused by this complex of Habenaria. It was also difficult to find literature that establishes what morphological features separates one from the other. If there's anything that separates Habenaria rhodocheila from Habenaria roebelenii, I'd like to know what those factors are.
     
    Last edited: Oct 15, 2018 at 3:58 AM
  9. Marni

    Marni Well-Known Member Staff Member Supporting Member

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    Shashi, sorry I wasn't clearer. Piranhacon made my point much better than I. I don't have any exact comparison images to show the difference I see between the two species, but I think these will show enough. What I am comparing are the reproductive parts. Look at the 2 sets of "tusks" that project from the column. The upper two hold the pollinia and the lower two are the stigmas.

    Habenaria rhodocheila two clones:
    H.rhodocheila. leon's orange x self.jpg h.rhode.yellow.8894.close2.jpg

    Habenaria roebbelenii (aka roeblenii) same clone, two views:
    H.roeblenii.close.stack.3414.jpg
    H.roeblenii.side 3414.jpg
     
  10. shashidhar sastry

    shashidhar sastry Active Member

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    Ms. Habenarias.jpg Marni, I need to get this right (?), first there is morphological differences, more so in the reproductive parts (shows clearly in your pictures) and earlier that was probable good enough to put it under different species. Now whether DNA analysis takes priority over all other features to classify it as a species or sub sp. I have a picture again showing the differences between H. roebbelini and H. xanthocheila (which is again classified as sub sp of H. rhodocheila)
     
  11. Marni

    Marni Well-Known Member Staff Member Supporting Member

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    Shashi, to me the one on the left in your picture looks like H. rhodocheila. The stigma (there is another word for that part, but I don't remember it) projects out and is free for much of its length. I can wrap the pollen around the stigma on H rhodocheila and xanthina. In H. roebbelenii the stigma is not free and is somewhat fused. I can't get the pollen on the underside. I tend to take an insect's eye view of taxonomy.
     
    Last edited: Oct 17, 2018 at 6:02 PM