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Epiweb or Ecoweb

Discussion in 'Wanted' started by phelsumatic, May 24, 2012.

  1. phelsumatic

    phelsumatic Member

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    I know they are two different products.I am looking for some of both.No preference used pieces new pieces doesn't matter any and all of what you have to offer.Willing to trade or purchase outright.Yes I know of first ray's site and there availability.
    Thanks
    chad
     
  2. gnathaniel

    gnathaniel Lurker Supporting Member

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    Chad, I have a roll of stuff I got pretty cheap at a local garden center where they sell it as pond filter medium. It's black and has a somewhat coarser, more open texture than the ecoweb I've gotten from Ray; from what I can gather it may be somewhat similar to the original epiweb though I've never seen that up close to compare. I can send you a few slabs to try out; I have enough to last me years at the rate I'm using it. PM me if you're interested.
     
  3. Ray

    Ray Orchid Iconoclast Supporting Member

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    Epiweb and EcoWeb are identical. Originally, some of it was even made at the same factory.

    The only difference between the original and current versions of both is the color.

    There is some lot-to-lot variation in the density, but it seems to make no difference to the plants.
     
  4. phelsumatic

    phelsumatic Member

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    I would love to pm you and tell you I am interested but since the new changes my dumb arse cant figure it out.
    Thanks
    chad
     
  5. MiKa

    MiKa Active Member Supporting Member

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    This will be my only and final saying in this thread. I was not going to say anything since I know Ray Barkalow attends this forum also. And I didn't want to bring this controversy up again. But as Ray didnt think the same way I'm feeling forced to comment as the inventor and developer of EpiWeb.

    EpiWeb and Ecoweb is NOT identical. Ray Barkalow has consistently claimed that they are, to be able to sell his material and using the good creds and rennomé EpiWeb have built up.

    There a multiple things that make them different and to claim them to be identical is really appaling.
    EpiWeb has been upgraded in details several times during the years just because small differences makes a big difference when it comes to growing such special plants we are dealing with.

    I'm not going into details here. But If anyone wants more info in this matter you can PM me.
     
  6. Ray

    Ray Orchid Iconoclast Supporting Member

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    OK, Mikael and Lika, let's get this over, once and for all, with a clear statement of facts:

    Once upon a time, I was the North American distributor of Epiweb products, and was mighty proud to be associated with someone as creative as Mikael. When I ordered pots and chopped media, they were shipped from Sweden. When I ordered sheets of the material, Mikael had them shipped to me from a manufacturing plant in the US. I have bills-of-lading proving same. At that time, all of the material was black in color.

    After some time, it became very difficult to get material from Mikael. No responses to emails or phone calls to Dusk interiors. It took seven months to get a shipment of cubed substrate, and it got worse as time went on. As I was running out of stock, I emailed Mikael and offered to order directly from the US factory, and send him a check for the difference between the purchase price and his pricing - it was his product, after all. Even THAT elicited no response. Having been "dumped" by my supplier, I decided to go on my own.

    I will acknowledge that I should have renamed the product I was selling right away, but for all I could tell, Epiweb was out of business, so I didn't worry about it. A mistake, I'll acknowledge again.

    Along the way, Mikael changed Epiweb from the black to the brown material, then reemerged and went on the attack saying I was a liar, and that I was selling "fake Epiweb". ("Fake", in this case, being the material he sold to me.)

    I personally agreed with Mikael's decision to switch to brown, and having gotten a sample of "real" Epiweb, imported and sold through the reptile market in the US, sent it to the US factory to duplicate. That is the material I now carry as EcoWeb. Is it identical? I don't know for certain down to a chemical basis, but it's close enough for orchids. (One of Mikael's shipments of Epiweb to me from the US factory was brick red in color, and entirely different thickness and density, yet it still works fine as an orchid substrate, so these differences are apparently not as delicate as was implied. I might add that he did nothing to help me resolve that issue, by the way. )

    So I guess the bottom line is that "Epiweb" and "EcoWeb" are not identical - they do, after all, have different names! Are they materially different? Maybe / maybe not. Does it matter? Not that I can tell.

    "MiKa" - I'll stop implying the two products are the same, as long as you don't try to paint me as being disreputable, especially considering your approach to business and the untruths you have used in this discussion in the past. All I know is that I'm supplying material into Europe, as your support of distributors apparently continues to be an issue: http://blogkarnivores.canalblog.com/archives/2011/02/19/20433233.html

    Peace.
     
  7. gnathaniel

    gnathaniel Lurker Supporting Member

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    Hey Chad, sent you a 'conversation,' which I believe is the new PM feature. You can reply to me via conversation or the email I provided, whatever works better for you.