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Dendrobium fargesii (not Epigeneium sanseiense)

Discussion in 'Orchid Species' started by Marni, May 22, 2012.

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  1. May 22, 2012 #1
    Marni

    Marni Well-Known Member Staff Member Supporting Member

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    A great plant to flower ratio, but not one I find easy to bloom. This is a first bloom seedling.


    amarniturkel.com_oi_epig.sansiense.stack.front.jpg

    amarniturkel.com_oi_epig.sansiense.stack.qtr.jpg

    amarniturkel.com_oi_epig.sansiense.plant.cleaned.jpg
     
  2. May 22, 2012 #2
    Uluwehi

    Uluwehi angraecoids, dendrobiums and more Supporting Member

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    Cool! Such personality it has.
     
  3. May 22, 2012 #3
    xmpraedicta

    xmpraedicta Prairie angraecoid nut Supporting Member

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    Oh I enjoy this one very much!
     
  4. May 22, 2012 #4
    Alexey

    Alexey Well-Known Member Supporting Member

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    Yes, flower is huge!
     
  5. May 23, 2012 #5
    gnathaniel

    gnathaniel Lurker Supporting Member

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    Pretty species, Marni! What conditions are you giving it?

    Interestingly, Kew now seems to consider both this and Epigeneium nakaharae to be synonyms of Dendrobium nakaharae.
     
  6. May 23, 2012 #6
    MiKa

    MiKa Active Member Supporting Member

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    *drooling all over my keybord*

    I have bought at least 5 plants sold as E. sanseiense. And I now have 5 plants of E. nakaharae :rolleyes:
     
  7. May 23, 2012 #7
    Marni

    Marni Well-Known Member Staff Member Supporting Member

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    Tropicos list E sanseiense as a synonoym of E nakarahae. I asked a friend with a lot of knowledge and a very good library to see what she could find. It turns out that species was Epigeneium fargesii which is now Dendrobium fargesii. Epigeneiums are now back in dendrobium (my head is spinning with all of these changes).

    I am growing this intermediate but recently was told I should grow it cooler. I've seen a couple of images of really good bloomings, I'm hoping the cooler temperatures will help. A friend who blooms it well grows it under lights with Dendrobium cuthbertsonii.
     
  8. May 23, 2012 #8
    Marni

    Marni Well-Known Member Staff Member Supporting Member

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    Be careful you don't short out the keyboard, now. I don't think I've ever seen fargesii sold under either genus, have you?
     
  9. May 23, 2012 #9
    KellyW

    KellyW Orchid wonk Staff Member Supporting Member

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    "Epigeneiums are now back in dendrobium"

    Marni, are all Epigeneium back in the Dendrobium genus? What institution is the final word on nomenclature for orchids? That's probably a very novice question but I've never paid much attention to nomenclature. I'm getting more interested in keying plants and studying species differences.
     
  10. May 23, 2012 #10
    Marni

    Marni Well-Known Member Staff Member Supporting Member

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    Kelly, yes, as I understand it it is all of them. Same with Diplocaulobium. I have friends who keep up on this sort of thing and tell me , but don't actually know where it is happening.
     
  11. May 23, 2012 #11
    gnathaniel

    gnathaniel Lurker Supporting Member

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    As far as I've ever been told, Kew is the generally-accepted arbiter of correct nomenclature. Their records can be accessed online via the World Checklist of Selected Plant Families website. I find that The Plant List, which draws from the WCSP database as well as others like Tropicos, has a somewhat more user-friendly interface, for example by suggesting search terms as you type (WCSP seems to require exact spelling of an entire name to return a record). The Plant List mirrors rather than directly accesses WCSP, so it's not always quite up to date on recent changes.
     
  12. May 23, 2012 #12
    gnathaniel

    gnathaniel Lurker Supporting Member

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    I would like to find out more about who is publishing these revisions involving Dendrobium, which the databases don't indicate since they refer to Epigeneium reverting to earlier-published synonyms in Dendrobium. Someone told me a while back that Mark Chase had plans to begin molecular analysis of the Dendrobium group, so maybe the changes are coming from his team? Anyone have access to the literature in which this is presented?
     
  13. May 24, 2012 #13
    Marni

    Marni Well-Known Member Staff Member Supporting Member

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    Here is the link in Kew's Monocot Checklist: http://apps.kew.org/wcsp/advsearch.do;jsessionid=280BD3165FF442FB85BB6B9FF55B15E1. If you click on the "accepted by" link you will see the publications.
     
  14. May 24, 2012 #14
    gnathaniel

    gnathaniel Lurker Supporting Member

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    Thanks Marni! I guess I didn't look around very hard for that, did I? ;)
     
  15. May 25, 2012 #15
    Marni

    Marni Well-Known Member Staff Member Supporting Member

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    Hey Nat, don't worry about that. I frequently don't know the answer myself, but I usually know who to ask. I emailed a friend who told me that Tropicos was for new world and Madagascar (with a couple of other strengths) but Kew Monocot List was the place for Asian genera. I was also told "Then there's plantlist.org, which lags behind everybody else by years..."
    I have some know
     
  16. May 25, 2012 #16
    Tom-DE

    Tom-DE Well-Known Member Supporting Member

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    Lovely species!
    I still think it is Epigeneium sanseiense though, It looks like that one on IOSPE and Mine looks like yours as well. What makes this one E. fargesii? TIA
     
  17. May 25, 2012 #17
    Marni

    Marni Well-Known Member Staff Member Supporting Member

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    Hi Tom, If you look up E fargesii on IOSPE, you will see the same flower under that name also. Sanseiense has just been misapplied to this for many years. But this plant matches the description for E (now D [again]) fargesii.
     
  18. May 25, 2012 #18
    Tom-DE

    Tom-DE Well-Known Member Supporting Member

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    The photos on IOSPE are very similar indeed. The fargesii on IOSPE is more colorful(not the basis for ID) but that is all I can tell from that photo.

    Do these two species have different growths?
     
  19. May 25, 2012 #19
    Marni

    Marni Well-Known Member Staff Member Supporting Member

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    E sanseiense is a synonym for E nakaharae and is not a valid species name.
     
  20. May 25, 2012 #20
    Tom-DE

    Tom-DE Well-Known Member Supporting Member

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    That might make sense now if Kew got it right. My plant does look different than E. nakaharae.
     
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