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Cleisocentron gokusingii (was merrillianum)

Discussion in 'Orchid Species' started by Dale, Sep 26, 2010.

  1. Dale

    Dale New Member

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    Intermediate grower. I'm having some trouble getting used to that flower color.
    cleisocentronmerrilstack.jpg cleisocentronmerril34stack.jpg cleisocentronmerrilplant.jpg
     
  2. KellyW

    KellyW Orchid wonk Staff Member Supporting Member

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    Beautiful. I see that Andy has these for $75 (ouch). Where did you get yours?
     
  3. Dale

    Dale New Member

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    I got mine from Andy 19 months ago. I only paid $48. It's better to live rich than die rich.
     
  4. Tom-DE

    Tom-DE Well-Known Member Supporting Member

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    Love that, Dale.

    Mine might be having a spike but time will tell.
     
  5. Kitty

    Kitty AKA\Debby

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    I got mine at poe this year from the Mylasia guy for $30.
     
  6. KellyW

    KellyW Orchid wonk Staff Member Supporting Member

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    Thanks Kitty.
     
  7. Uluwehi

    Uluwehi angraecoids, dendrobiums and more Supporting Member

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    Fabulous close-ups Dale! I really appreciate the detail on that nectary spur! If I were an insect I'd like to rest inside that blue heaven for a while ;)

    It looks like your plant may actually be Cleisocentron gokusingii.
     
  8. Dale

    Dale New Member

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    So, what I understand is that C. gokusingii and C. merrillianum are separate because of vegetative habit. Is that correct? If that's the case, I'm not going for it. J.J. Wood in Orchids of Borneo Vol. 3 indicates that C. merrillianum has different vegetative habits and that's a function of age. I've read the same thing in another book, but I can't find the reference right now.
     
  9. Erik

    Erik New Member

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    very nice !
     
  10. dendro dave

    dendro dave New Member

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    Eh I have the sickening feeling I'm partially responsible for the price going up on these. I posted a couple of want ads and mentioned it in a few posts the last month on a couple forums and was saving up for an order...go to order today and the price is up 50% ;(

    So I'm in the market if anyone finds another sources or is willing to sell a division.

    Email me at [email protected] please, I'm new and not sure how often I'll remember to stop by here. I'm a regular and dendroboard.com and dartfrogz.com though under the same name.
     
  11. Tom-DE

    Tom-DE Well-Known Member Supporting Member

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    Piping Rock Orchids has it for $59.95
     
  12. dendro dave

    dendro dave New Member

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    Thanks I shot them an email. It looks like that section of the list hadn't been updated since 2009? So figured it was wise to check before ordering. Bummer is Andy had 1 or 2 other things I was really wanting, and I'm not seeing them on Piping Rock, so If I did order it may be worth going with Andy...or else I will just have to limit myself to this one plant for now. I'd loose most if not all the savings from shipping cost if I place orders at both places ;(
    Decisions decisions....
     
  13. Uluwehi

    Uluwehi angraecoids, dendrobiums and more Supporting Member

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    Dale,

    I went to hear Dr. Tony (Anthony) Lamb's talk last night at the Malihini Orchid Society in Cupertino. He showed and explained to me the key for Cleisocentron gokusingii and merillianum. He said that although there are more specific differences, the fastest way to tell them apart is by the leaves. C. gokusingii leaves aren't terete, having a flat-ish top surface, while C. merillianum leaves are nearly entirely terete and round in cross section.

    Here are the keys he showed me from the Malesian Orchid Journal:

    Leaves distinctly constricted c. 2cm below the apex, ligulate, very shortly unequally bilobed, sheaths not striate; stems 0.7-0.8cm in diameter; front wall callus inside spur not discernible = C. gokusingii

    Leaves not constricted c. 2cm below the apex, terete to ligulate, acute or shortly unequally bilobed, sheaths striate; stems c. 0.5cm in diameter; spur with a small front wall callus below the base of the midlobe = C. merillianum
     
  14. Dale

    Dale New Member

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    That's it? Wood and Lamb can be splitters if that makes sense to them. I'm not opposed to the concept of variety or subspecies. Even calling my plant Cleisocentron merrillianum var. gokusingii is a stretch for me. Did Lamb tell you how many flowering specimens he looked at? BTW.... the constriction at the apex of the leaves on my plant is subtle and @ 3 cm. New species?

    Thanks for the diagnosis, though.
     
  15. Uluwehi

    Uluwehi angraecoids, dendrobiums and more Supporting Member

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    I copied that key with you in mind. I didn't ask him how many flowering specimens he had personally seen. I would have copied down the descriptions for each species but didn't have that much time. They may shed more light on floral differences.

    As a side note, I don't have strong personal opinions on taxonomy, I just appreciate being able to use keys and descriptions.
     
  16. Tom-DE

    Tom-DE Well-Known Member Supporting Member

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    My C. merrillianum has darker blue and I wonder if it is a new variety or a new species. Carry on!