Bulbophyllum hybrids with members of Macrobulbon Section

*barf*

 

*barf*

 

I'm actually pretty partial to the one intersectional I've seen pictures of, Bulb. Krairit Vejvarut (longissimum x phalaenopsis). I've run across them on ebay a couple of times but I never sprung for one since I don't have the room. Bill Thoms recently registered A-doribil Cecilia (lobbii x agastor), haven't seen a picture of that but I'm definitely intrigued. I've got a couple of seedlings of a primary within the section, it'll be interesting to see what comes out of the cross...

 

When Googling Bulb. Krairit Vejvarut, I found this photo of Bulb. (not phalaenopsis)
http://www.212cafe.com/freewebboard/user_board/krisorchid/picture/00664_0.jpg
Any idea what it is? (sort of like orthosepalum or fletcherianum, but not really)

 

You'll notice there are 5400+ species threads on this forum compared to the 700 hybrid threads. That's not an accident. The members here are a discerning crowd that favors species over (dirty dirty) hybrids. OrchidBoard and rv-orchidworks are more suited to hybrid growers.

Personally, I believe hybridizing bulbos is tantamount to kissing my sister; there are some things you just don't do because they're vile and repugnant.

 

I appreciate orchids for what they are. What adaptation and evolution created. Hybridization/growing hybrids has nothing to do with that interest. Hence, hybrids aren't my thing and I honestly can't relate to anyone's desire to make hybrids out of such an incredible genus. Just me though.

 

So what do you all think about 'line-breeding' (usually inbreeding) of species orchids? To me that's a bit closer to the 'kissing my sister' analogy... Line-bred orchids tend to resemble wild-types less and less after generations of artificial selection for whatever arbitrary characteristic we happen to like.

Heck, even genetic outcrosses made with in vitro culture ex situ are modified by that; we're always selecting for those whose genes make them most suited to those cultural conditions. Enough generations of that kind of breeding will likely deviate substantially from wild-type, even if only in subtle or non-apparent ways. One of the more biologically significant but invisible (to us) ways this could occur is in loss of gene combinations that favor mycosymbiosis.

Definitely not trying to pick a fight here, just curious what you all think about these issues (and I'm sure most of you have pondered them a lot more than I have). I truly admire the work many of you do to preserve and propagate rare orchid species. And though I'm not adverse to hybridizing I also have a definite preference for cultivating species. I guess I just have a hard time drawing a bright line, especially given the apparent natural predilection of so many wild species to cross with each other given the opportunity.

 

I don't care for line-bred orchids. It's why I don't understand the whole AOS thing. I grow orchids because I enjoy them. Line breeding, inbreeding, selective breeding, hybridizing... *barf*.

 

Yeah, the more I think about it the less I care for flower-quality awards and the like. I feel like they mostly just encourage the fetishization of whatever qualities orchid judges happen to like.

 

I like growing plants that have a native habitat and natural history; that come from someplace other than a commercial nursery. When they bloom, I get a lot of contentment knowing that I've duplicated that habitat in my own back yard. If I'm going to expend money, time, and space on a plant I want it to be on a plant that's extinct or endangered and worthy of the effort. I can look at a hybrid flower and as soon as I turn away I forget it. Not so with species. But... that's just a personal preference, I guess.

Enough about sister kissing, please. I'm feeling nauseous.

 

Just let you know I am not a species snob!:evil:

I was told Dale had a hybrid Phrag in his collection too.

 

Quote: Hobby, an activity or interest pursued for pleasure or relaxation and not as a main occupation ( http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/hobby ). Yes, ¾ or more of plants in my collection are species, but I have all my orchids and all related DIY projects for pleasure, not as a mission . If I post a photo of the extremely rare species with absolutely insignificant flower(s) or foliage, perhaps that will be a ”barf”-episode!

 

You're fooling yourself if you think the plants we grow here have a genetic profile anything like the ones in the wild....

We have them because they are the .0001% that have been able to deal with incredible conditions. Species are initially acquired after someone ripped it off a tree (either recently or not), it (probably 1 out of many) survived so they could either bring it to the US, or grow it in their garden/nursery. Then someone artificially sets a pod (usually by selfing) - and germinates them on media that is nothing like the natural germination. We then put them in compots, baby them, spray them with chemicals, fertilizers, and a couple of them grow. By F2, I'm guessing almost none of our bulbos could survive reintroduction in the wild. I'd be willing to bet money on that.

I love species bulbos, but I also love the intellectual aspect of hybridizing. Most people do one or the other, however they are entirely separate in my mind. I can grow a couple bulbos outdoors here. I've also found that hybridizing with those bulbos allows me to grow more. IN essence since I can grow outside, I can have an unlimited amount of plants. rothschildianum and fascinator x almost anything survives outdoors here. Certainly if I showed you a picture of rothschildianum x carunculatum and you didn't know it was a hybrid, you'd think it was a really interesting flower. Hybridizing also allows you to figure out a lot about the genetics of the plant. Its clear that Epidendrum pseudepidendrum and various reed stem Epis have extrodinarily dominant, and probably large amounts of duplications of patterning genes. The patterning and color genes for the floral segments definitely exist on several chromosomes, and probably have a redundant system as people are into 3rd and 4th generation hybrids with things like cattleyas, laelias, etc. And yet the shape still looks exactly like the reed stem epi - the size seems to be the only thing that really changes. Epidendrum stamfordianum has the unique property of having its spike come from the base of the pseudobulb - this property is never transmitted to hybrids. This suggests a relatively recent mutation in a transcription factor or a novel stem cell niche in the base of the pseudobulb.

So I crossed Coelia bella with Coelia machrostachya. Or that I'm crossing Vandopsis lissochiliodes to every vanda with cold tolerance. One of my favorite purchases this year was vanda tricolor x rhychostylis coelestis. The flowers are phenomenally fragrant, last forever, have an awesome blue lip, and grow outdoors. Ansellia gigantea crossed with Catasetums make really cool plants. I love Stanhopeas so much, but honestly Aciopeas (acinetas x stanhopea) are more majestic.


Almost inevitably transgenic orchids will be making their way into the American market in the next couple of years. There will be a huge amount of different transgenes included that for better or worse, we will have to deal with. Once it becomes cheap to introduce genes for things like salt tolerance, you will be getting bulbos from asia that are transgenic. Hybridizing and artificial selection is the essence of civilization and allowed us to become what we are today. While it might not be "pure" its one of the most natural (intellectually speaking) human urges. We've been doing it for at least 5,000 years. If anything, hybridization and line breeding are awesome examples of how evolution works, and the power of selection.

If we look at animals, there is very little we can point to that we can do that is unique - animals use tools, communicate, are able to process abstract problems, think long term, etc. If you ask me what made us distinct and why we are what we are today its that we are the only animal that hybridizes. We learned to do that a long time before we learned to write....

As if I wasn't contradictory enought, I really don't like dogs for the same exact reason.

Now I managed to piss off everyone in the forum.

Welcome back!

I love you guys....