Building a cool vivarium - advice please

I just have scored a great HUGE terrarium that I plan to convert into a cool vivarium, cloud forest style. I plan to fill it with mainly Pleurothallids, EpiWeb interior.

I would LOVE some input and advice on how to do this right from the very beginning. I'd love to see pics and hear specs of yours... pitfalls to avoid...

This is what I have planned so far...

The blank slate... It measures 175 cm wide, 160 cm tall, 65 cm deep. A light weight aluminium frame with 4 mm glass both on the sides and for the sliding doors on the front, a single sheet of double walled polycarbonate back wall. Pretty nice actually, it is light weight and I will never see it with the EpiWeb wall up.

New cover/ceiling: Glass or plexi? I'm thinking 4mm glass (since I am unsure of the light properties of plexi), split into 2 panels, adding an aluminium support in the middle. This will also help support the weight of the light.

Light. I was thinking Dulux 80W CFL’s. They run cool (important since it is to be a cool viv), and have deep penetration (good for at least 150 cm). But I cannot find fixtures for these bulbs. Ideas? The bulbs I have seen are 4000K, is that good enough? How many tubes do I need for this size viv?

Rain system. What are good brands? Silent, non clogging... what else should I think about? How many nozzles do I need for this size viv? I have a R/O system already and plan to use this water.

Cooling fan. System to draw cool air in from the outside though a wall vent. I'm thinking bathroom fan and flexible tubing, fan hooked to thermostat... (I have regular air circulation fans already for inside the viv.)

Hygro/temp thermostat. What should I think about when shopping for this? Good brands?

Humidifier. I plant to have this blow in at the same place as the cool air feed creating a cool fog. I already have an ultrasonic humidifier I use for the room, is there some kind of switch I could put on the PVC pipe to alternate fog flowing into the room, then into the viv, so I don't have to keep 2 humidifiers?

 

Thanks a lot guys!! And thanks for all the great input. Here are answers and reflections on what we have so far...

Cover
Glass it is for the top then, I had a feeling. I wonder if tempered glass could handle the temperatures? If not, perhaps I can put wood spacers or something between the glass and light. Suspending it might be a trick since I have such high ceilings... and old (not sure what it will hold).

Thanks a lot for offering to help Magnus. I have looked at what Dusk has, and since I will order all the EpiWeb from them I might get the rest there too. I just like to check my options before committing.

Fans
Jon, I plan to pull the air from outside the house, temps rarely exceed 10-15 degrees C at night here so it will work great for cooling. Magnus, I hope that you are right and that the case fans will be strong enough to pull the cool air in since the bathroom fans are outrageously expensive, and yes, really noisy! I did not think it would be strong enough, but I have an extra 140mm fan (9 dBA, airflow 39 CFM, 66 m³/h) I can test with. I will report on how that goes.

Jon, I was skeptical too that regular case fans would last very long in the viv, but I have had these 80mm Fractal case fans in my smaller warm viv. for over a year now and they are still going strong. They are not very expensive and nice and quiet too. I chose the 80 mm ones since they run much more silent than the smaller fans (only 11dBA). I friend came up with the great idea to silicone the exposed connectors so they would last longer. I think I will try that on this new build.

Rainsystem
Magnus, I tried the Epiweb IIS self watering system for a much smaller build a while back. It works great on the back wall, but I found it was not effective enough beyond that. I would like branches to stick out from the back wall, or perhaps build a "tree" out of EW to utilize the space in the center more. Then I will need a rain system for that anyway.

I have looked at several different brands, but the one Dusk sells seem the most serious/havy duty. Some of the ones sold by reptile stores seem pretty "toy like". I have never seen MistKing here. How many nozzles will I need though?? Dusk's system comes with 2 nozzles, but I would imagine I'd need at least 4?

Drainage
Hmm, that I had not considered, so thanks a lot for the heads up! I do not know how water tight the bottom is, but I had planned to seal the seams with aquarium silicone just in case. Before doing that I will install a passive drain. The floor is some sort of plexi material, so that won't be hard to drill a hole in. The floor in the orchid room is actually linoleum so water damage is not too much of a concern - in moderation of course (I never thought I would be grateful for linoleum, lol.).

Hygro/temp thermostat
Thanks for the links, the HerpKeeper sounds interesting, similar to this one but it is quite pricey and only does temp... I have looked at the one Dusk sells, looks really good since it handles both temp and RH, especially for the price. I only wish they would say what brand they are selling so I can read up on it some more...

Insulation
I have thought about it, but am unsure how effective it would be since no matter what you do the front is still open with just glass as a barrier. Have anyone tried it? What material is best? I could put insulation on all sides but the front since I will cover the back and sides with EpiWeb anyway. Target temps probably somewhere between 8-12 C night/15-21 C day. My growing room is rarely warmer than 21 day/15 night the cooler part of the year, +5 during summer with few exceptions. So hopefully condensation will not be too much of an issue.

Fogger/Humidifier
I thought about using a fogger in the viv, but I really want to combine the cool air comign in with the fog, since it is this cooling orchids really benefit from the most. it would be hard placing a water reservoir up by the air intake (and it would need to be high since cool air sinks), and it would not look very good either... A humidifier on the outside is a better option I think.

Light
Jon, if you have not looked into the new PL light technology (CFL) lately, you should! Really cool stuff!! (an interesting read) Powerful enough to rival HID's yet compact and cool running (lasts 2,5 years w/ electronic ballast). They also have much better depth penetration than T5's, so I would not need lights on the sides. The three main manufacturers (in Europe) call these by different names but it is basically the same thing. Dulux L (Osram), Lynx L (Sylvania), or PL-L (Philips). I have several 55W PL-L's in my growing room and warm viv already and they are fantastic, so the new 80W should kick some serious butt!

I actually just found some good info about the Dulux 80W on dartfrog.co.uk... They say that is it suited for tall vivaria, up to 180cm. Supposedly it still produces 5000 lux at 100 cm distance... They recommend one lamp every 60 cm in length and a row for every 20 cm in depth. Sooo, according to their recommendations I would need 3 rows, with 3 lamps per row. Wonder if it would be enough with 2 rows... 9 lights feels like a lot? Thoughts?

Neither the fixtures from Dusk or Dartfrog come with reflectors so I have to find one that fits...Have you seen any place that sell just the reflectors without the ballast? It would be cool to find one long reflector, one for each row. Dartfrog has a dimmable electronic ballast option, that might be cool for when you want to enjoy the viv without wearing sunglasses...

Other considerations
Thanks for the brainstorm Jon.

Automated?
Yes, I want most operations to be automated, so I can leave it for a week without too much worries.

Pests
I hope I don't get any... otherwise I am a big proponent of biological warfare over the use of poisions... eh nematodes and other predatory mites/miracle workers in other words... What were you thinking about Jon? Preventative measures?

Affixing the Epiweb to the back & walls
I was thinking I would screw it into the polycarbonate back wall, and the top 20 cm on the sides are actually plexi, so I should be able to screw into that as well. Otherwise I was considering hot glue.

Plants in pots
I wanted to place orchids in 11cm square plastic mesh pots on the bottom, I have been thinking about what to put them on. Roellke sells these plastic grates that could work. But I kind of wanted tiered rows so I can see the ones in the back better. Some sort of a stair step structure... I could probably fit 4 rows with 12 pots on each row comfortably (it fits 5 rows of 15 per row with no space in between). Ideas??


Wow... long post. But this is important stuff! Thanks for walking me through it!! I will keep you posted on the progress.

 

Thanks a lot everyone!!

Thanks for the heads up Harry. Now when you say it, I remember reading somethign about silicone not sticking to anything but glass... and I have aluminum and plastic... I will have to look for some epoxy or maybe the hot glue gun.

Aceetobe: Simple... the only ones who are more crazy about light than we are, are Mary and Jane and her comrades... I have learned tons about light on their forums though, hats off.

Magnus... Ouch... ok, no tempered glas... I am happy to spread the word on the fans. I run 14 (!) fractal fans in my growing room and none has crapped out yet. The one right in front of the humidifier work to spread the fog more even in the window and it has run without a hitch for 2 years now, despite all the humidity. (I buy mine from Dustin.) Great advice on the aluminium L-beam for the nozzles, thanks! I asked the husband about the floor. It is actually not linoleum, it is a laminate of some sort. Probably some cheap IKEA product. The only floor in the apartment not replaced and sanded down to the original wood (good for me). Probably not water tight, but it won't be damaged from water being spilled on now and again. If we do something different with the room in the future, the floor is the first to be replaced anyway. If I have problems with cooling I will try insulating with styrofoam, good idea. I will test and see what holds the EW to the poly backing best... if no glue/silicone will do the trick I will screw it in place. I will ask Dusk about Dulux reflectors then, but I was leaning towards buying the lights from Dartfrog, it would be cheaper even with shipping... but we'll see.

Absolutely!! I agree 100% You must document your build as well.

 

Thanks masdevallia! I am also afraid it will not be strong enough... The ones I have in the window only push air about 1 meter, so I actually put one on each side for adequate coverage... The distance from the vent to the tank is about 3,5 meters, so it will need to be pretty effective. But since I have one extra case fan laying around, I think I will try hooking it up to test it at least. If not, I have been looking at the cylinder fans too. Just thought they were kind of pricey... at least at K-Rauta, I will check Bauahaus and Claes Ohlson too though...

I am debating what misting system to get... does anyone have any experience of the Basic Misting System from Dartfrog? (scroll about 1/2 way down on that page)

This is also keeping me up at night... what is the best configuration for the Dulux lights (each light is approx 60 cm long)?
Single lights placed front to back next to each other about 20 cm apart: | | | | | |
or making two rows with 3 lights per row, kind of like this: = = =

 

Thanks Alex. Yes, I think it might look better that way too. I am also thinking that placing them like that, across front to back evenly spaced might also give me better lighting over all, in between plants and stuff.

10 heads!! What size is your viv? I was thinking 4, but perhaps I am grossly underestimating this...? How are yours placed? I am thinking it might not be enough to have the nozzles along the top since my viv is so deep, but I suppose I have to test it and see.

 

Thanks a lot Gordon for all that great input!! I was actually just about to press the "buy" button on Dartfrog when your message came in, I must say I feel extra good about my choice now. Nice to hear from someone using the system before committing.

And thanks for the inspirational photo Magnus, nicely done! I will attempt to copy that solution for the lights.

So, big time shopping spree...... I ended up getting four 80W-DuluxL Complete setups, on Marc at Dartfrog's recommendation (in fact, I received a very nice reply to all my questions from him this morning). I also got their basic mist-system (Vivaria) with 4 extra complete nozzles. So I will have a total of 6 nozzles for starters. If I need more the system supports up to 10 nozzles so that feels good. Nice to hear that they are flexible and fairly easy to adjust. Oh, and it does include a burn-out protection module. I also got a seconds timer (Dragon) and a thermo-hygro combo sensor for measuring the temperature and humidity. The pro model has two probes, one combined temperature/humidity and one just for temperature. I figured that would be nice for measuring temp both where the cold air comes in as well as on the other side of the viv. as I am sure this will differ considerably at times.

I also placed a big order from Dusk for a whole bunch of EpiWeb - huge panels of it - as well as their digital hygrostat och termostat. So hopefully I will be building the interior of the viv. really soon.

Hmm... I will have to think about how to mount the EpiWeb for sure. I have no idea what the waterfilled panels will weigh, I will ask Dusk. I might have to build some sort of framework for it like you say, the back wall might need some support at least.

Thanks for the heads up again on the silicone, as it is tempting to use. But I will use a hot glue gun to attach the drain to the floor - I will probably use the same for water sealing the seams too. Although it will be a bitch to remove should I need to... but let's hope I never do.

 

No worries Alex. Thanks for your input. Wow, that is a lot of nozzles you've got he he! I just ordered the misting system this morning and I am getting 6 nozzles for starters, but I can supplement with up to 4 more if needed. It might be necessary as I get more plants in there as you experienced, with larger plants blocking etc. We'll see. I am sure there will be a lot of adjusting along the way.

 

Ok... I finally have made some headway on the build! I am still waiting for a lot of material to come in as some stuff has been on backorder and the weather has delayed some shipments.

I finally go the bottom sealed - and I actually ended up going over all the seams to be safe. First I tried using a hot glue gun since people told me silicone won’t not stick to plastic or aluminum. Well... neither will hot glue!! So I bought some super silicone glue called Superfix, it is supposed to stick to anything, and so far it looks like it worked.

I picked up glass for the new top. I decided to have it split it into two pieces since trying to handle a 65×175cm large piece of glass really would be a pain. I think this will be good. I also mounted the EpiWeb walls, a big job to cut the large panels to size, but it turned out great. I could not finish this job completely as I did not get all the pieces (still waiting on some EW branches), so I did as much as I could. I still have to plant/smear the tropical moss mixture on it too once I have assembled all the pieces. I attached my panels with carriage bolts so I can take them back down again if I need to. I think it will come in handy when I do the moss, it will be easier to do with the panels laying down.

At least I feel like the project is finally moving forward, finally!! Hopefully lights and watering system will come in this week. There are a lot more photos from this weekend's project on my blog if anyone is curious.

More to come as this project progresses.